Sandridge Q&A ~ Saddles

SADDLE RE-STUFFING

MY SADDLE IS A CROSBY PRIX ST. GEORGES DRESSAGE. THE PADDING IS QUITE FLAT AND A
FRIEND MENTIONED I SHOULD MAYBE HAVE IT RE-STUFFED - WHAT DO YOU THINK?

The first thing to determine is is your saddle can be re-stuffed. While most dressage and All-Purpose saddles have wool-stuffed panels, and most close-contact or jumping saddles have felt-and-foam panels - it is not always the case. Only a "stuffed" panel can be re-stuffed (with some minor exceptions). The Prix St.Georges has been made in both styles.

SADDLE SLIDING BACK

i have a 1500 lb Belgian x Arab who I field hunt and jump. He has no withers, a flatback and an extra-wide tree size, with a 52" girth with elastic end. On the flat every thing is ok, but as soon as we climb or jump, his shoulder area leaping forward pushes the saddle back approx 2 inches. i have every girth type and saddle anti-slip pad known to mankind......I have a saddle cloth which does not slip but the saddle slips back, so the pad is just where I placed it but the saddle moved... with other pads, both pad and saddle move. Yes, I have tightened the girth to the max.... yes I have a breastplate. I will now try a breastcollar across the chest. The saddle is an all purpose type very much like a Stubben.....I try to keep as close as possible to the horse's body, avoiding layering. Do you have any other tricks of the trade ???? His girth groove area is very limited so the saddle billets have to line up forward. What are your feelings on a close contact forward flap saddle, and do you think there is any extra value or balance in a long billet which would use a short type dressage girth for better balance?

It sounds like you have tried most of what I would suggest, though there a couple of adjustments that may help. First, you are right to try a breastcollar (the type that goes horizontally across the chest and fastens to the girth billets) as it limits movement of a different part of the saddle – and you may find it is worthwhile to use both a breastplate and a breastcollar. Neither should have any elastic on them as there is always a little more give to them with it. I would also try a girth that doesn’t have elastic, as we are trying to limit movement. Ask yourself if the horse will be more comfortable with some 'give' or with the saddle, rider, and balance in the right place. Finally, if you haven’t already tried it, Barnsby makes a grip pad that is a honeycomb non-slip material on the underside (against the horse’s back) AND non-slip material is sewn on the top of the pad against the saddle. Of course, you can’t use any other pads with this in order for it to work, but they are thick enough to afford decent back protection and we have found them to be extremely effective. (We have put the same system into a synthetic fleece pad for appearance sake.) If his girth groove area is far back, or his underline slopes up right from the elbow, it might be an idea to try a ‘Logic’ type girth - backwards. That would allow the center of the girth to be behind where we want the billets to hang straight down – in your case allowing you to use whichever billets that help anchor the saddle better. I would NOT advise going to a long billet/short girth arrangement as a long girth against the sweat flap (nearest the horse) also helps hold it in place. If you try one thing at a time, you will be better able to determine what changes actually have an effect.

SECONDHAND SADDLE VALUATION

I HAVE A BARNSBY SADDLE, USED VERY LITTLE, AND PURCHASED AT LEAST TEN YEARS AGO. I AM THINKING OF SELLING IT AND AM TRYING TO ASSESS ITS VALUE. I AM ALSO UNSURE AS TO WHAT MODEL IT IS. IS THERE A LOCATION ON THE SADDLE THAT WOULD INDICATE THAT? ALSO, DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE RESALE VALUE FOR BARNSBY IS? IN BARELY-USED CONDITION, WOULD IT BE 30% LESS THAN PURCHASE PRICE, OR SOME OTHER ESTIMATE?

There is no easy answer to the value of a secondhand saddle. First of all, is the saddle an All-Purpose, Close-Contact, or Dressage? The design changes in the last 10 years may affect its value more than the actual condition. At that age, you are probably looking at 50% of the new retail value, plus or minus some for wear, style, condition of the leather, etc. The demand in your region for that style, size and colour will also affect how much you will get for it. Unless a name is stamped on the billet covers, the flap against the horse, or the flap under where the girth attaches, only someone very familiar with the Barnsby line would be able to give you an exact model. Hope this is of some help.

SADDLE SIZING

I AM 5'2" AND WEIGH 120 LBS. I HAVE A 16-1/2" CLOSE-CONTACT SADDLE AND WANT TO BUY A DRESSAGE SADDLE. MY INSTRUCTOR SAID I MIGHT NEED TO LOOK AT A BIGGER SIZE - WHY?

The criteria for determining the size of saddle the rider requires vary according to the type of saddle, and what the rider plans to do in it. In a Close-Contact, or Jumping saddle, I would say the most important factor is the length of the rider's thigh - from hip to knee - so that when the rider is sitting in the deepest part of the seat, with the stirrups at the shortest length the rider normally uses, the knee is correctly positioned behind the knee roll or block. Thus, a tall, thin girl could require a 17 1/2" saddle, while a short, heavier woman fits a 16 1/2" well.

For Dressage saddles, forget the above! The size required will depend on the depth of the seat (the deeper it is, the larger the size usually needed), whether the pommel is cut back, (lessening the available space to sit on), and the size of the rider's seat and thigh. If the saddle is too small, you will likely feel like you are being pushed forward, possibly developing a sore back, or you will feel it in the front!

Two further points; if in doubt, go for larger, rather than smaller; and ladies are normally more comfortable in a wider seat than men. You should always try to arrange to have a decent school in a saddle before you buy it - don't ever buy a saddle without riding it in first.

HIGH WITHERS

I AM LOOKING FOR A DRESSAGE SADDLE FOR A HORSE WITH VERY HIGH WITHERS. DO YOU HAVE ANY RECOMMENDATIONS?

To accommodate high withers, a saddle with a cut-back pommel is usually required, or the front of the saddle becomes uncomfortably high for the rider. High withers alone are not normally a big fitting problem - the difficulty lies, as is often the case, when the withers are very long as well, (that is, extending further back on the horse than usual). In that situation, you have to look very carefully at the depth and the shape of the gullet, because it is there you may get pressure points. Passier, Kieffer, and Barnsby (to name a few) all offer a cut-back head; in my experience, Stubbens are less likely to fit this type of conformation. In our shop I would likely begin with the Barnsby Raven. It is important to note that a larger size may be required for the rider as some of the seat is unusable when the head is cut back. Do not forget that a new saddle will need restuffing once it is broken in, to ensure the fit remains correct.

SADDLE STYLES

I AM ABOUT TO BUY MY FIRST HORSE, ON WHOM I HOPE TO DO A LITTLE BIT OF EVERYTHING – UNLESS AND UNTIL WE HAPPEN TO BE GOOD AT SOMETHING!

I’VE BEEN RIDING FOR SEVERAL YEARS ON SCHOOL HORSES (AND SCHOOL SADDLES), SO I NEED A BIT OF BASIC INFORMATION ON THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF ENGLISH SADDLES AVAILABLE BEFORE I GO TO THE TACK SHOP.

I divide English saddles into 6 basic categories; Close-contact, Modified close-contact, All-purpose, Forward-seat, Dressage, and "Specialty Saddles", which would include those designed for Polo and Endurance, for example. Following is an outline of the 5 types of saddles most rider’s will consider:

Close-Contact saddles are basically intended for jumping and riding in a half-seat, or "two-point" position. The deepest part of the seat is slightly further back than would be found on an All-Purpose or Dressage saddle, to accommodate a shorter stirrup (which puts your leg further in front of you). The thin panels (the padding in contact with the horse’s back) provide a more sensitive feel of the horse, and are normally made with felt and foam – which, incidentally, are not alterable – the fit you get is not easily changed . There is very little in the way of extra padding to provide security or comfort to horse and rider. This is a saddle really intended for a sophisticated rider on a Show Hunter or Jumper.

All-Purpose saddles are suitable for lower-level Eventing, Pleasure riding and Hacking, and Foxhunting. They have a deeper, more centrally-located seat and normally have knee and, often, thigh rolls, to provide security to the rider. The panels are usually stuffed with wool that can be adjusted by a saddler to accommodate different horses (within a certain range). All-Purpose saddles can be further divided into those that have a tendency to Dressage (with a straighter flap and more central seat) or Jumping (with a more forward flap and deepest part of the seat further back).

The "Modified Close-Contact" lies somewhere between the previous two types. It usually has a Close-Contact-type panel, though sometimes a wool-flocked panel is seen. The seat is slightly deeper that the true Close-Contact, though not as deep as the All-Purpose. The flap may have padding on it, and there are often small knee or thigh blocks for a little security. This type of saddle is most suitable for the jumping phases of Eventing, or Show Jumping.

Dressage saddles are designed for a specific purpose – training on the flat and Dressage competition. It normally has large wool-flocked panels which are critical to the well-being of a horse whose rider will be sitting on his back for relatively long periods of time. The deepest part of the seat is central, and the flaps are straight to allow riding with a long leg placed under the rider’s hips. Thigh wedges or rolls are often used to help maintain leg position. Dressage saddles typically feature long billets to be used with a short, "Lonsdale" girth – the purpose of which is to get the girth buckles out from under the flap, and reduce the bulk under the rider’s leg. Comfort is important, so there is often more padding on the seat than is found in other types of saddles.

Forward Seat saddles are specialized saddles designed for cross-country riding – Fox Hunting or Eventing. They have very forward flaps to allow very short stirrups, and the deepest part of the seat is the furthest back of any of the saddles. A medium-deep seat gives the rider some security, but allows him the freedom to adjust his balance and lean back, for example, when jumping down drop fences.

DRESSAGE SADDLES FOR SHORTER RIDERS

I am a 5'2" woman looking for a dressage saddle. I was wondering if you could recommend any particular brand/model of dressage saddle for riders with shorter legs. For example, Stubben suggests the Scandica DL. I have noticed that a few companies offer "short" flap lengths (sometimes for an extra price!), but is a shorter flap length really sufficient? Is it just a cut-off flap or is the saddle actually proportioned for a shorter leg (like a properly-sized knee roll)?

Thanks for your question. I always approach saddles and their fitting first from the horse's perspective; in other words, I would try to find the best fit for the rider from the saddles that fit the horse. So, I couldn't say "the best fit for a rider like yourself is a so-and-so saddle", because it may be unsuitable for your horse. If you are riding a variety of horses, this may not be an issue. Almost all of the Barnsby dressage saddles can be made for a shorter rider, as with Courbette, Stubben, Amerigo, and others. The brands we carry do adjust the panel and knee rolls, etc., to be consistant with the flap length. It should not add to the price, but you often have to wait for manufacture. (Normally 8-12 weeks). The rider's build is another issue - a heavier short women might need a 17 1/2" saddle with a short flap (a customized adult saddle), while if you are very slim, requiring a 16 1/2", or 17" seat, your options are often more limited, as fewer 'Junior' size dressage saddles are offered. Barnsby has the PCA Dressage which would fall into that category.

Being 5'1" myself, I can tell you that I will never buy a regular dressage saddle after having one with the shorter flap - it allows feel and communication that is not possible when 80% of your leg is touching only the saddle.

SADDLE SLIDING FORWARD

I have an Arab mare who has a decent wither, but also has that nice round belly that makes the saddle move forward - not too much, but toward the shoulder enough to make it uncomfortable for her, and consequently for me, too. I have to dismount, move the saddle back and get back on... My dressage saddle fits properly when put on without a pad, the pressure is evenly distributed, and it is very comfortable for me. I have tried various saddle pads, and even a PVC mesh pad 'guaranteed' not to budge crumpled underneath the saddle. Some are better than others, especially thin, dense ones, but there is still that creeping forward. Is there any way I can stabilize the saddle through the Y-billeting system? What other suggestions do you have for stopping the saddle moving forward on this type of horse? It has been suggested I use a foregirth*, but I would prefer to avoid it if I can.

Here are the things that can be helpful in anchoring a saddle. Arabians are notoriously hard to fit, and what works best can be any of the following or a combination:

1) Non-slip pads - these vary in effectiveness. The two I am most familiar with are the neoprene square (about $20.00) and the Barnsby Grip Pad ($ 119.00). The critical thing is to use the pads alone - if you put the non-slip pad, then a saddle pad, then your saddle, all you are doing is helping to prevent the saddle pad from slipping - and the saddle will continue to slide on the pad. For this reason, the Barnsby ones are probably a better buy as the non-slip is built right into a nice looking pad and you just wash the whole thing.

2) The V-billet system is designed so that you can always adjust the girth so it is perpendicular to the ground, and still lying behind the elbow in the proper position. In this position the pull is straight down on the saddle - not pulling it forward or backwards. The girth will normally lie toward the front of the saddle on a horse like yours, and the girth will likely be done up on different holes - in this case tighter on the front billets to help anchor the saddle behind the shoulder.

3) Cruppers - usually seen on ponies, are a very effective way to keep the saddle sliding forward over the shoulders, and most horses get used to them pretty quickly. They are not 'fashionable', so you don't often see them except on ponies.

4) Anatomical 'Logic' girths. These girths were designed by County Saddlery and have a fixed, curved shape. On a horse whose girth wants to sit too far forward (many Arabians), these girths put the underside on the girth in the right place, but then the ends bend back away from there, allowing the billets to hang straight down (see above). Instead of the girth pulling the saddle forward, it is encouraged to stay in place. They cost $ 80.00 - $ 300.00.

5) Sometimes having a saddle re-stuffed by a good saddle can correct this problem, but the success varies from horse to horse.

Failing all of the above, you may have to consider looking at another saddle. One model we have had some success with on a round-bodied, wide-shouldered, often hip-high horses has been the Passier, and I'm sure there are others.

* For information on Foregirths, see Q & A - Saddle Fittings

Anatomical or 'Logic' Girth